Are we making Progress? Goals Metrics Definitions

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 7, 2008 at 3:21pm

Bud, in my mind efficiency is the key formula for doing anything. If you check back to indigo's description which i totally agree with, I think it's paramount.

We have this many resources and this many goals, can we achieve our goals with these resources or do we need more. If we need more are we going to get more. If we are not going to get more than the only way to get where we want to go is to improve efficiency.

Example - I want to drive 100 miles i have 2 gallons in my 30 mpg car. I don't have the reources, I need more gas or a more efficient car. A 50 mpg car would do it.

I don't think the american public and students and econmomy can handle more and more increasing costs of resources, so efficiency is the name of the game.

I think, what do you think?

Our formula

100 million students? Guess
Global standing in education? 40th guess
Global competitiveness? top, slipping? where are we?
How do we move up?
more money, more resources or efficency?

can that efficiency be achived through technology? if so how? That's what I am trying to flesh out.

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 7, 2008 at 5:36pm

I agree they need to learn them, we are on the same page. I am just trying to get a snese of how we can impress that on the powers that be to make it happen. I was thinking some data would help starting with who is using the technology, who is teaching it, how big the gap is that we need to fill?

I'm not offended, I'm here to learn and collaborate. What analogy is not a good one? the car?

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Permalink Reply by Bud Hunt on February 7, 2008 at 7:30pm

I'm not offended - I said it was a bad example. Although, if you're measuring how quickly you can organize the garage, it's perfectly reasonable (and extra efficient) to buy rather than make shelves. When you're focused on the outcome, and not the process, then all (okay, at least most) avenues are acceptable for reaching the goals, right? (I don't believe that, either, but this thread sure seems to be leaning that way.)
This is helping me to scratch the concern I've got with this whole thread. It starts from the assumption that, if we could only measure everything and then tweak inputs to improve outputs, all would be better with education. That's an industrial model that's overly mis-applied to learning.

I question that assumption. Is all learning measurable? Is time spent doing something that isn't measurable wasted time? I don't think that it is. There's an old OL Daily thread that is useful in this space, too. I'm sure there are numerous other places where folks are having this conversation. Smarter people than I could argue this better.

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Permalink Reply by Nancy Bosch on February 7, 2008 at 8:38pm

Me again. I agree, indigo. I think there are much bigger problems afoot than whether a kid can upload a video or text while driving. Schools are not meeting the needs of lots of kids, 20% of h.s. dropouts are gifted. What's up with that? High school is too long for some, too early for some, too slow for some but we still ask everybody to get in a track and slog along for 4 years. I hope there are younger teachers out there who are going to stay around long enough to make some major changes. I retire in a year or so, I'm leavin' it all up to you!

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 8, 2008 at 7:16am

So if teaching for life is the goal, instead of teaching for work or to be an employee, what would we be teaching that we are not?
Financial literacy
Ethics
Global community
Business
Hapiness
Are other countries teaching this way?
Indigo, I think the measure of amount of money we make is not a good measure. Can you suggest some others that relate to quality of life or being prepared for life?

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 8, 2008 at 10:35am

This is great, thank you.
So it seems we are leaning toward custom education?
Like custom cars, homes and medical care.
This is good and is a win win for everyone.
Is technology part of that end goal?
If so how?

Does anyone out there know how we can engage personality and skill sets and personal interests into the education system?

I think it is and the teacher becomes a manager of self motivated engaged learners, while the peers and technology enables the whole thing. Here is good link to a podcast from EdTechLive about that specifically. Scroll down to the Micheal Russel Interview.

http://edtechlive.com/Recordings+List

Enjoy!

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 8, 2008 at 11:24am

i guess I should have been clearer about my term technology, i was mostly referring to web 2.0 technology, I figured others where also since we are talking at classroom 2.0.com

But I did not make that clear, thank you for the clarification.

Our company has designed an all in one web 2.0 platform specifically for schools to help the educational process. It is not a learning management system, more of a communications and networking system to help teachers and students adapt to the new age of communications.

We'd love to have Gates and Jobs' support but until then we are doing what we can.

You can check it out at www.saywire.com

I'm here to collaborate and learn more about how this can benefit education and approaches to the system. You have been very helpful in that effort, thank you.

It seems many schools are using learning management systems like the one you mention?

One curious thing is this one laptop per child project is so focused on other nations, why don't they bring them to our schools for programs like the one's you describe here?

Permalink Reply by Nancy Bosch on February 8, 2008 at 11:29am

Does anyone out there know how we can engage personality and skill sets and personal interests into the education system?

Carol Ann Tomlinson's (Univ of Va) work suggests differentiation occurs in three areas---interest, learning profile, and readiness. (Learning profile is different from but includes learning style. It also includes group orientation, learning environment, cognitive style, intellectual preferences.) I have heard her say that a match between these three areas and curriculum would eliminate all classroom discipline problems. Be interesting to see if that was true.

David and Indigo---you may be at the end of your thread! You'll have to start over.

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 8, 2008 at 7:22am

So I am not saying measuring and efficiency are the ultimate people level concepts that we should concern ourselves with. But they seem like good places to start when talking about system level choices and changes.

From the outside looking in it seems the educational system does not have accountability, flexiblity and qualified people running it. Not the teachers, the people above the teachers, you know the local elected officials who have no training in education or problem solving or strategy.

I'm thinking that all learning is measureable that's how you know it's learning, maybe we should look at the definition as a group, help me out here. This is what I got and I've been thinking about it a lot and certainly open to your additions.

Learning - the process of taking in data, or connected previous data points to be able to make a different choice.

With that definition, the different choice is measurable always in some form.

What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Nancy Bosch on February 7, 2008 at 5:27pm

"What was once educationally significant, but difficult to measure, has been replaced by what is insignificant and easy to measure. So now we test how well we have taught what we do not value". ~Art Costa

My students' definition of efficiency---"do what you have to do fast enough to leave time to do what you want to do".

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Permalink Reply by David Levesque on February 7, 2008 at 5:39pm

Hi Nancy, is your first statement meant to reflect the consciousness of our leadership? or our teachers? or?
who made the decision to switch to teaching what is insignigficant?

regarding the second statement I know that people say they do a lot of things in life they do not want to do, that's why i suggest in an earlier post it would be good to take into account what the student's personality, skills and yearnings are in the educational system.

is this possible?

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Permalink Reply by Nancy Bosch on February 7, 2008 at 5:50pm

I don't know when Costa made the statement quoted above but it screams of the high stakes testing for NCLB. As a seque to the efficiency comment--I think that creative efficient teachers can do a work around some of the prescribed curricula they are asked to teach.

I teach gifted K-6, many of my kids, even at a early age, learn to play the school game. "Do what they ask, don't do too much, don't ask for more---then I can stick my head in a book and they'll leave me alone". Effciency at its finest. Sorry, did I get off topic here?

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