Friends and Protocols
I ask this question based on my future interest in social networking with kids, and not as a result of this site, but ... I've been thinking about how the friend invites work and whether it is better to just accept everyone who asks to be your friend or to narrow down your choices and maybe reject a few.
On one hand, the wider your network of friends, the better chances you have for making strong connections with others. And the more potential you have for experiencing new things and new ideas.
On the other hand, if you accept everyone who offers to be your friend (as I often do), then why not just make everyone in the social network a friend? Why keep the circle small? What makes the friend network so special at that point?
I am thinking of how to explain this all to 11-year-olds, and what it means if someone asks you to be their "friend" in a social network and you don't want them. Do you reject them? Ignore them? Explain why? And how would they feel? (Obviously, this becomes an incredibly important learning moment in the classroom)
If you have used social networking in the classroom, could you share how you approached this?
Thanks
Kevin
On one hand, the wider your network of friends, the better chances you have for making strong connections with others. And the more potential you have for experiencing new things and new ideas.
On the other hand, if you accept everyone who offers to be your friend (as I often do), then why not just make everyone in the social network a friend? Why keep the circle small? What makes the friend network so special at that point?
I am thinking of how to explain this all to 11-year-olds, and what it means if someone asks you to be their "friend" in a social network and you don't want them. Do you reject them? Ignore them? Explain why? And how would they feel? (Obviously, this becomes an incredibly important learning moment in the classroom)
If you have used social networking in the classroom, could you share how you approached this?
Thanks
Kevin
Tags: friends, networking, social
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Branzburg on
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I too am wondering about 'friends.' So far here on on ning I see no difference between having somebody as a 'friend' and not (unless I am missing or unaware of something). And as I understand 'friends' on some other networks (like MySpace) people seem to compete to get as many as they can (again, unless I am unaware or mising something). As pertains to the classroom, I would think that given the somewhat exclusionary nature of many adolescents, as well as bullying problems, I'd be hard pressed to endorse the 'friends' idea.
But I'm going to invite both of you to be my 'friend' ...
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Permalink Reply by nlowell on
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Two things that get conferred with "friend" status.
You get to see the posts I make that are flagged "friend only" under "who can see this"
You get to see what other networks (interests) your "friends" have.
According to Ning itself ... friends work this way
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I think ONE issue is keeping the implementation within the classroom.
The idea behind the whole Deuce (that's anything 2.0) is to move it outside of the boundaries.
This has the advantage for allowing everybody to find a place where they're valued instead of trapping them in the artificial groups imposed by the randomness of geography. The unpopular/shunned kid (like me) can find a community where their voice has value.
"I can't imagine anyone reacting favourably to a request to leave a friends' list."
I can't imagine reacting at all! Go ahead and drop me from your list of friends ... it's ok. Not a problem for me. It's like deleting my name out of your email address book, or dropping me from your IM contact list. NBD.
We seem to be making much more of the idea of "friend" than is warranted. The point of danah boyd's article is that the relationship that many people outside of the Deuce describe as "friend" is only tangentially related to the same term used here. Why would I react *at all* to somebody leaving my friends list?? That's a concept rooted in a different concept of "friend" than we're talking about here.
The problem, of course, is the semantic value of "friend."
It might be more accurate to name it "a person I met whom I'm willing to let into my inner circle of convesation -- assuming I have one or develop one -- but who I don't necessarily know all that well at the moment."
"Friend" takes up less screen space.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Pass on
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Great discussion. As somebody's who's always felt a little socially isolated, I don't like the concept of having friends on a site like this. I could imagine it easily increasing the hurt that little Tommy feels when he just doesn't have as many friends as other people. It's almost a popularity contest and I'm not sure that kids learn how to develop their own self esteem in this popularity contest. While it's a popularity contest, I'm not even sure what the popularity would be based on in this kind of a world. If it's a local context, it would be based on 1st life popularity not 2nd life.
Just to add a comment, I"m not sure what the whole popularity thing is. I see my picture up there once in a while, but I really don't think it's because I have the most friends, or I'd see my picture there more consistently. I think it has something do with the amount that you post.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Potter on
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Another perspective on this issue, how do I fix this problem?
What about the teachable moment that comes from answering the question "Why don't I have friends?" In the classroom, it is easy to pinpoint the answer and not as easy to say, "Well, you are always talking out of turn" or "Other kids don't like to have their hair pulled." They are physical, personal issues that the person being shunned will have to fix or live with. Online, it is different, because you don't have that one-to-one connection like you do in the real world.
I am coming to the realization that one of the main ideas of this whole Web 2.0 concept is not how much you promote your own stuff, but how you interact with what someone else is promoting. Commenting on articles/forums/posts etc. is a great example. I could be over on my blog writing this great post about how every classroom should be web 2.0-ed out to the nines, but if I don't have a list of friends or a large readership, it doesn't really matter.
To butcher an old cliche, If I go into the woods and scream my lungs out, does it matter? Unless I take some friends with me to hear me, ask if I am all right and probably to make fun of me no one is going to hear it.
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Permalink Reply by Shayne Train on
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Hi Diane! I was just about to add you as a friend :) and read your concerns about the "friending" process. I've been on Facebook for at least half a year, as are all four of my own kids and almost all my students. My experience is that kids will add anybody just to up their count. Nobody seems to be left out. One of my kids is very careful only to add true friends, my university-student daughter adds anybody she has just met. I constantly have a stream of kids who want to add me (I'm a young-at-heart 52) and my rules are: 1. No friends of my younger daughter as this would freak her out and 2. No students until they graduate. At first they begged but I explained that I don't want to see their walls and have them wonder if I'm "spying" on them. I actually don't like the "Popular members" on this site. I don't see that on Facebook, thank goodness. OK, now I'm sending you a friend request ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Davis on
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Kevin,
I'm also trying to figure this friend thing out. I'm not sure what difference it makes if someone is my friend or not. I'm also wondering if there is any reason NOT to accept a friend offer here.
With respect to kids - I'm 39 and don't want to reject anyone or hurt anyone's feelings. I also don't want anyone to reject me as a friend. So I can imagine what it must feel like for an 11 year old. On the other hand, in a place like MySpace kids often make thier pages private, so only their "friends" can see their page. This makes accepting a friendship more consequential. I think for kids they are "safest" only accepting "friends" that they know. And if they decide to allow people in they don't know, they need to be really careful about what they share about themselves on their page.
I know a lot of the internet safety scare stuff is over the top, but I still think kids need to be careful about sharing personal information with people they don't know.
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The "friending" feature here in Ning is ... at best ... feeble. It makes more sense in places like Flickr where you have the three levels of "public, friends, and family." There aren't a lot of advantages to being a friend at least in this community.
You're right about kids sharing personal stuff, but we keep making the mistake in assuming that the term "friend" means anything personal in this context. Maybe we can change the word.
"Friend" appears to have too much baggage.
How about "Tralfaz?"
"Show my Tralfaz"
"Will you be my Tralfaz?"
"Who can see this? Everybody, Only Tralfaz, Just me."
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And on the subject above of "warranted" .. i didn't mean to belittle the concern. Obviously with so many people being so confused about it, it's warranted. I think the concern that kids can't tell the difference is a good one, but I'm not sure how I think about it. In my warped mind, the distinction is so obvious that it's like a fish trying to describe water. But then, I'm not normal! :)
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Permalink Reply by Kevin H. on
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Let me say that I like the idea of connecting with other people based on shared interests (which is the whole notion of tagging). It's nice to know that I may not be the only one who enjoys watching purple elephants dance naked in the rain (try tagging that!). So there is real power in that connection.
I was just thinking of this from the view of the already-challenging social circles in my classroom and not how I can be so overly protective that not one of my students gets their feelings hurt, but how can I make my students understand the value of real connections between people, virtual or not.
I, too, am not offended if someone dumps me from their friend list, but I have weathered enough storms in my life to know that some things you take personal and some you don't. Not all middle school students understand that.
What I often see happening in places like MySpace and others is the flaunting of numbers of friends (like numbers of hits to a website) as if quantity trumps quality, and I worry that my students would tumble into this scene and the losers -- once again -- would be those who a bit quirky, a bit outside, a bit unconventional -- yet special in their own ways.
Thanks to everyone for contributing to this discussion. It is helping me out enormously.
Sincerely,
Kevin
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Permalink Reply by Alice Mercer on
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I think that the friends discussion here has two "planes" One is the classroom, and our students. What does being a "friend" mean to them? What do they need to know about being/having online "friends"? What should "friending" be for them? The next plane is the one we are on here as adults interacting with each other. What is a "friend" what do we get from being/having "friends", and how will we use this tool? Sometimes those planes intersect. What we learn about "friending" here could help inform how we talk about and teach our students. Some of us may think it's all the same thing, but it's not. I don't think it would mean "nothing" if people dropped me as a friend, but it would mean less than when I was 13 yo. While I am sometimes amused by the fact that I pop up as "most popular", it's not a goal for me.
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Permalink Reply by Marie on
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I agree Liz. After just completing a program on internet safety with kids (13) I'd have to say, only friend those people you know (to kids). Hmm, now I am wondering how to accommodate this 'rule' in collaborative projects ... I guess the situation changes the rules.
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Yesterday I had a "friend" request from someone who has no profile. I found our from Steve, the creator of this room, that he had also received this request. I rejected the request (first time I've done that) but am still wondering about how he could see and contact members of the room without a profile.
I let my students have the last few minutes of class-time (it's computer class) to go on their Facebooks. I'm very curious to see what they do and it gives me a chance to check their levels of security, answer questions, discuss issues. In a few cases, a student will yell out, "XXX wants to add me as a friend! Who is that? I'm going to add them!!!" and I ask them why they want to give access to their pictures, news, profiles and other friends to someone they don't know.
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